Ariana
Holy Knight Trainee
Posts: 84
|
Post by Ariana on Sept 21, 2015 3:30:04 GMT -8
Maybe it is not possible to split the Dark Element between several people and it is only possible to collect it in a single vessel? Or possibly, it is because of the contract of Gods, since the Demon King is actually much to powerful and three Demon Kings would be even worse. Never mind the catastrophy if they started a war or something... I could imagine that, since the Demon King actually breaks the contract of Gods, he can only appear once the saturation of Dark Element has reached dangerous levels, so the Shadow God doesn't always have this massively powerful spokesperson. Also, probably the thing with massive powers having massive downsides. So the Shadow God is allowed the have a massively powerful spokesperson, but since that spokesperson unsually loses their mind, it's not to good for his reputation, or something like that.
|
|
|
Post by CherryChimchim on Sept 21, 2015 17:42:26 GMT -8
If there were more people using dark element, then wouldn't the amount they can collect each time be lower? That way, there would be more, but less damaging "catastrophes", which would let world cope with it better wouldn't it? After all, the main point of the Demon King is to use up the dark element, so why don't they spread it over multiple people so that the dark element can be used up faster and not cause as much damage in the process?
|
|
Ariana
Holy Knight Trainee
Posts: 84
|
Post by Ariana on Sept 22, 2015 5:49:57 GMT -8
Well, as I see it, in order to use the Dark Element up faster, you would have to let them all absorb the same or a similar amount of Dark Element as one Demon King would. I don't believe that splitting the amount of Dark Element one Demon King absorbs now between three people would result in a faster decline. Also, I think that you need to equip the vessel with a certain (very high) amount of power to be able to more or less handle the Dark Element and therefor you would need three massively powerful vessels for three Demon Kings, which would violate the contract of Gods even more than one Demon King does.
Also, I don't think that three Demon Kings would result in less destruction than one. The destruction would probably have a shorter duration, since the Dark Element would be used up faster, but in exchange, it would be much greater. After all, three Demon Kings could to three times the damage one can and it would problably be much more difficult to even keep them remotely in check, since now there is an entire church devoted to lessening the damage the Demon King does. If there were three, the Cathedral of the Shadow God would have to split there resources, which would most likely lessen their efficiency. And I don't even want to imagine how the world would look like if two or more of the Demon Kings decided to start a war against each other. Which probably wouldn't be too unlikely, considering the effect Dark Element seems to have on their character...
So, to make a long story short, I don't think that multiple Demon Kings would lessen the Demon King problem, I think they would make it worse.
|
|
|
Post by CherryChimchim on Sept 22, 2015 19:25:19 GMT -8
Not necessarily. After all, it is to my understanding that in order to do high level spells, which uses a certain amount of particular element, one must layer multiple lower levels spells to achieve it. And normal people are unable to complete higher level magic, or at least they can't do it continuously, as the one person would be unable to gather enough of the necessary element. The Demon King is so dangerous because he can gather the dark element so easily and without much effort, however, if this ability was to be spread among three or more people, each person would only be able to gather 1/3 of the dark element the normal Demon King can. This means they would be less likely to use higher level spells as it would be more difficult or more taxing for them. I am under the impression that the damage that can be caused by spells grows exponentially as the level of the spell grows higher, so spreading the ability to gather the elements among multiple people would mean that each individual cannot cause very much damage as they would simply not be able to gather enough dark element fast enough to achieve it. Therefore by using slightly lower level spells which use a lot of dark element but don't cause as much damage as high level spells, will both use up the dark element faster and cause less damage in the process.
|
|
Ariana
Holy Knight Trainee
Posts: 84
|
Post by Ariana on Sept 23, 2015 4:51:15 GMT -8
I don't agree with you there. Considering the destruction Charlotte wrought while still being a Demon King Candidate and considering that, as far as I understood it, each candidate attracts less that a third of the amount of Dark Element than the Demon King does, I think that three Demon Kings each sttracting a third of the amount of Dark Element could wreak much more massive destruction that one. After all, Charlotte and Grisia both used very powerful magic even as Demon King Candidates and were both capable of attracting massive amounts of Dark Element. And considering that battles between Demon King Candidates seemingly can become very destructive (after all, they evacuated Leaf Bud City because of it), I think that a war between two Demon Kings (even if each only has a third of the power one Demon King has now) would be even worse. And I think that a war between them would be quite likely, considering how instable they tend to become and how easily angered.
|
|
|
Post by CherryChimchim on Sept 23, 2015 16:00:13 GMT -8
That is true, but what if the power of the Demon King was spread across many more people, say among all the members of the Religion of the Shadow God? They'd be less likely to go insane from the dark element, and the smaller damage that they might deal would be more numerous but less severe.
Although, I wonder how the element thing works in their world in the first place. If they can "use up" the elements, then it certainly doesn't follow the law of conservation. Since that is so, where do the elements come from in the first place? And why is there a need to reduce the dark element if the growth of dark element is only due to the world trying to use it to balance out the holy element?
|
|
|
Post by thebookgirl on Sept 23, 2015 16:02:45 GMT -8
Random thought: In my Latin III class, we're doing Vocabulary for College, and our first word (I kid you not; I'll show pictures of the book if you don't believe me) was benevolence. In the V for C books, they ask you to write an original sentence to ask your teacher to review word use, and as I was writing mine my mantra became, "do not make an LSK reference do not make an LSK reference do not make an LSK reference do not make an LSK reference." I didn't, but it was very tempting. The only thing stopping me was knowing that no one in that class has read anything LSK. This, of course, made me think of random questions. I'm good with these. 1. If the 12 Holy Knights (and knight-captains, if you so wish) were a part of your everyday life, who would they be to you? Who would you WANT them to be to you? 2. If you met any of the 12 Holy Knights in the present-day world (this generation, 38), would you recognize them? That is, assuming they had already adapted to modern society. 3. If you met an LSK character (of choice)outside of a public restroom (you know, the ones where they put female bathrooms right next to male ones?) and recognized them immediately, how would you address them? Would you, or would you stand in awe? *cough* *cough* Take pictures of them with them (hopefully) not knowing? *cough* *cough* (Dunno if any of these were asked before.)
|
|
|
Post by CherryChimchim on Sept 23, 2015 16:40:05 GMT -8
Ah! You do Latin too? I have finally met a Latin buddy! Let us discuss the benevolence of the God of Light in Latin. But in answer to your questions:
1. Of course they must be my older brothers! And if I can't have all of them as my brothers, Lesus will do. The rest can all be my friends. 2. Such handsome people, how could I possibly not recognise them? 3. I would run up to them and make polite conversation, then suggest they cosplay for SMASH and then ask if we can be friends. (taking a picture may seem a little creepy)
|
|
Ariana
Holy Knight Trainee
Posts: 84
|
Post by Ariana on Sept 24, 2015 3:15:53 GMT -8
That is true, but what if the power of the Demon King was spread across many more people, say among all the members of the Religion of the Shadow God? They'd be less likely to go insane from the dark element, and the smaller damage that they might deal would be more numerous but less severe. Although, I wonder how the element thing works in their world in the first place. If they can "use up" the elements, then it certainly doesn't follow the law of conservation. Since that is so, where do the elements come from in the first place? And why is there a need to reduce the dark element if the growth of dark element is only due to the world trying to use it to balance out the holy element? As for the Element thing, my guess would be that light and dark element build up over time and if they are used, they are transformed into a different type of energy (healing energy, energy that allows corpses to move around, physical force, etc). As for where they come from... I could imagine that light element is built up through sunlight or something, meaning that when sunlight (or maybe any type of light) shines onto some place, light element will build up there. Conversely, dark element would build up in places where there is a lack of light... would that make sense? I also believe that these two elements just build up no matter what, but the light element is continuously used up, therefore not becoming a problem, while the dark element isn't (or not enough). So, since I am trying to argue why the Demon King makes sense, I'll try to find a reasonable counter for your first point... which is difficult. Anyway, it seems to me that making any follower of the Demon King attract dark element could give rise to two problems. The first would be that it seems to be pretty rare for people to be able to handle large amounts of elements, especially the dark element (and even though the amount definitly wouldn't be as huge as the amount of element the Demon King or the Candidates have to handle, it would still definitely bigger than the amount of dark element they would handle normally, as otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for a Demon King in the first place), which could lead to several of them dying or just going insane anyway. Im order to make that work, all of those people would have to be born as vessels and then I doubt that you could make all of them join the Religion of the Shadow God and use dark element. After all, it seems as if not even Demon King Candidates necessarily attract dark element (Grisia didn't, even before he became the Sun Knight, neither, apperently did Roland, otherwise I doubt that those two would have been in the final ten for the Sun Knight selection). The second point would be that an army of powerful semi-Demon Kings seems pretty unbalanced to me as well. After all, according to Grisia, even regular Shadow Priests are already very powerful and those semi-Demon Kings would definitly be even more powerful and numerous. If they managed to coordinate, they could quite probably just take over the world... which would tip the balance in the other direction. To me, many semi-powerful beings just seem much more dangerous than one seriously powerful being. You can try to contain one, keep him happy, etc, but with several there is a much bigger chance to get a dangerous lunatic, infighting, or a powerhungry army... anyway, that's how I see it.
|
|
|
Post by CherryChimchim on Sept 24, 2015 5:09:49 GMT -8
Well there really isn't any need for a vessel if the dark element ability was spread across many people, after all, the Church of the God of Light uses loads of holy element among its followers, and there has never been a need for a holy vessel. Since the amount of elements are balanced, having a number of people similar to the number in the Church of the God of Light would easily be able to take care of the dark element around. And as each person would not have such a great amount of dark element that would cause them to go insane, they can be taught to control it and use it carefully. People wouldn't need to be born with the ability and forced to join the religion of the Shadow God, the ability can just be granted it its followers just like how the ability to use the holy element is granted to followers of the Religion of the God of Light.
|
|
Ariana
Holy Knight Trainee
Posts: 84
|
Post by Ariana on Sept 24, 2015 6:41:01 GMT -8
Well, the followers of the Shadow God can and do already use Dark Element (both Shadow Priests and Dark Knights), they just don't use enough of it. Possibly, because the Shadow God doesn't have enough followers... (or because Dark Element doesn't have such nice and practical uses like healing people...). So, you are right, the problem would solved if the Shadow God had as many followers as the God of Light, but how would you manage that?
|
|
|
Post by CherryChimchim on Sept 25, 2015 0:07:58 GMT -8
Hmm, well I don't know the properties of the dark element (it would be better if we did) but I remember Sun was able to compress the dark element to form pure crystals, so perhaps those may be of use somehow? Like Eternal Tranquillity is a crystal of compressed water element right? Maybe crystals of dark element could be used to attract the undead and keep them away from civilisation.
|
|
Ariana
Holy Knight Trainee
Posts: 84
|
Post by Ariana on Sept 25, 2015 2:38:20 GMT -8
It doesn't really seem to work like that (I mean attracting undead creatures by using dark element). So far, they seem to be attracted by weak/medium holy element and ignore/avoid dark element, depending on the strengh of it... But you are right, it would be useful to know more of the properties of dark element. So far, it's only uses seem to be reviving undead creatures and destruction... which would explain, why it isn't used as much as holy element.
|
|
|
Post by jasaebushae on Oct 10, 2015 4:00:24 GMT -8
Well we have seen the properties of the dark element be more established in the books. Those curses pink was doing appeared to be dark element. From turning someone into a demon, to Sun using large amounts of dark element to set up that psychic connection between the shadow knights. I believe that when Leaf was killed they also mentioned dark element being used to keep him from recovering. So I would imagine it can be used to suppress holy element which would make sense. Didn't Charollette display a similar suppression ability when she captured Sun? Or was that her lich? Also did that weird illusion type thing that I didn't quite understand. Where Sun knew where he was and gave the knights instructions but they walked into an empty room instead
But yeah, little practical use. Though the same seems to be true for the church of the war god
|
|
Ariana
Holy Knight Trainee
Posts: 84
|
Post by Ariana on Oct 10, 2015 4:23:35 GMT -8
I can't remember Dark Element being used to keep Leaf from recovering. I also don't think it would have been necessary, since he was killed by a stab to the heart, which kills pretty much instantly. But it would make sense that it can repress Holy Element. I think the illusion was cast by Stephan, but I don't think it used the Dark Element. Actually, there are a few spells where I wonder which Element would be used. Spell of Paralysis would be another example. Since the Illusion was some type of spacial magic, I somehow doubt that it was done using the Dark Element, since that doesn't seem to have spatial properties. Also, it was never stated, what kind of spell they used to supress Sun's element gathering abilities, but since the pope was able to do it as well, I doubt that it was done using the Dark Element.
And I agree that we don't really know much about its properties and usages.
About the War God: since the main aim of the Monastery is to strenghen warriors, there is a use for it in this world. War priests also seem to be quite common in advernturer squads.
|
|